How to make a living while you’re making a difference. A weekly show for independent professionals who want to go from six-figures to seven while increasing their impact on the world.
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Sales Meeting = Sample Engagement
How to set expectations and boundaries in the initial sales meeting (and why that’s critical to the progression of your project).Why the client isn’t always right or always wrong—and how to adopt a mindset that allows you to keep the outcomes front and center.Finding socially acceptable ways to push back when the client(s) starts leading down a path that doesn’t serve the outcome.Getting to the point where you believe you don’t need this client, this project—and why having a safety net is crucial.Why sales interviews are auditions for the client where you get to be the casting director.LINKSRochelle | Email List | Soloist Women | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | TwitterQuotables“You've got two different kinds of expertise that are coming together in this sales interview to see if there's a good fit between where you want to go.”—JS“You're teaching them (in the sales meeting) how to think strategically about your area of expertise and how it applies to their business.”—RM“You want to open their eyes to the fact that there's a reason they're calling an expert and it could be that they made a fundamentally bad decision way up front.”—JS“Our job is to hold the vision for the project…When you do that, it gets a lot easier to deal with things that are really more of a personality conflict, or a power play.”—RM“It's about finding socially acceptable ways to say no—to push back. And it's all in their best interest…it's all about the success of the project.”—JS“You have to get to that point where you say okay, if this is not the right fit client, I'm not going to do this.”—RM“These sales interviews—you could think of them as an audition for the client. That's how I look at them, like an audition for the client, which frames it with me in the judge seat.”—JS“Everybody needs a safety net. I promise you the second you truly get to that headspace, your meetings start to change and you get better.”—RM LINKSRochelle | Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter
Sales Meeting = Sample Engagement
How to set expectations and boundaries in the initial sales meeting (and why that’s critical to the progression of your project).Why the client isn’t always right or always wrong—and how to adopt a mindset that allows you to keep the outcomes front and center.Finding socially acceptable ways to push back when the client(s) starts leading down a path that doesn’t serve the outcome.Getting to the point where you believe you don’t need this client, this project—and why having a safety net is crucial.Why sales interviews are auditions for the client where you get to be the casting director.Quotables“You've got two different kinds of expertise that are coming together in this sales interview to see if there's a good fit between where you want to go.”—JS“You're teaching them (in the sales meeting) how to think strategically about your area of expertise and how it applies to their business.”—RM“You want to open their eyes to the fact that there's a reason they're calling an expert and it could be that they made a fundamentally bad decision way up front.”—JS“Our job is to hold the vision for the project…When you do that, it gets a lot easier to deal with things that are really more of a personality conflict, or a power play.”—RM“It's about finding socially acceptable ways to say no—to push back. And it's all in their best interest…it's all about the success of the project.”—JS“You have to get to that point where you say okay, if this is not the right fit client, I'm not going to do this.”—RM“These sales interviews—you could think of them as an audition for the client. That's how I look at them, like an audition for the client, which frames it with me in the judge seat.”—JS“Everybody needs a safety net. I promise you the second you truly get to that headspace, your meetings start to change and you get better.”—RM
Guest Highlights From 200 Episodes
The definition of authority and the challenges in building it.How to think about and price different products and services based on how they contribute to your overall business model.The challenges of bringing new ideas to market and developing sustainable habits to keep growing your business.The role of trust in building authority (and your business).Why clients value outcomes above all else.Quotables“The McKinsey trap is you're getting paid X number of dollars at McKinsey, and you realize they're marking you up for X. So you quit McKinsey and go out on your own and you can't even get paid a quarter.”—Seth Godin“I don't worry so much about the revenue from the books. What I look at is how it supports the other things that I do. I'm being paid to do it (webinars) because I'm an expert in this field. And so I have an entire business model that is set on giving away stuff for free and making good money doing it”—Jill Konrath“I only want to release things that seem like they can gain traction quickly without putting a ton of work or doing like paid acquisition for them.”—Paul Jarvis“We do not rise to the level of our goals. We fall to the level of our systems.”—James Clear“You should see how picky I am about taking on a client. It's crazy…I was just doing the generic thing that all clients look like good clients. But now I do this really specialized thing. And I only take you on if you fit my target perfectly.”—April Dunford“The I, the last factor in the numerator (of the trust equation) stands for intimacy, which is an interesting and unusual word in the business context, but it goes to…do I feel safe and secure sharing things with you?”—Charles Green“You have to bring rigor to it (your passion business). You have to bring discipline. You have to work really hard. Honestly, a lot of it can be less easy because when you're doing something you really care about, it's going to be maybe even harder than doing a job that someone else told you to do.”—Adam Davidson“Having a small child, I said, I cannot take any more unpaid work. I have no more time left in my calendar. So I put a call out for sponsors (of my podcast). I asked, four people to sponsor the show, all four said, yes. And that's the moment when I looked at my husband and I said, so people are paying me money to do a thing.”—Sarah Peck“It really is the outcomes that people want. That's the way it is with all transformations. Inputs don't matter—only outcomes.”—Joe Pine LINKSRochelle | Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter
Guest Highlights From 200 Episodes
The definition of authority and the challenges in building it.How to think about and price different products and services based on how they contribute to your overall business model.The challenges of bringing new ideas to market and developing sustainable habits to keep growing your business.The role of trust in building authority (and your business).Why clients value outcomes above all else.Quotables“The McKinsey trap is you're getting paid X number of dollars at McKinsey, and you realize they're marking you up for X. So you quit McKinsey and go out on your own and you can't even get paid a quarter.”—Seth Godin“I don't worry so much about the revenue from the books. What I look at is how it supports the other things that I do. I'm being paid to do it (webinars) because I'm an expert in this field. And so I have an entire business model that is set on giving away stuff for free and making good money doing it”—Jill Konrath“I only want to release things that seem like they can gain traction quickly without putting a ton of work or doing like paid acquisition for them.”—Paul Jarvis“We do not rise to the level of our goals. We fall to the level of our systems.”—James Clear“You should see how picky I am about taking on a client. It's crazy…I was just doing the generic thing that all clients look like good clients. But now I do this really specialized thing. And I only take you on if you fit my target perfectly.”—April Dunford“The I, the last factor in the numerator (of the trust equation) stands for intimacy, which is an interesting and unusual word in the business context, but it goes to…do I feel safe and secure sharing things with you?”—Charles Green“You have to bring rigor to it (your passion business). You have to bring discipline. You have to work really hard. Honestly, a lot of it can be less easy because when you're doing something you really care about, it's going to be maybe even harder than doing a job that someone else told you to do.”—Adam Davidson“Having a small child, I said, I cannot take any more unpaid work. I have no more time left in my calendar. So I put a call out for sponsors (of my podcast). I asked, four people to sponsor the show, all four said, yes. And that's the moment when I looked at my husband and I said, so people are paying me money to do a thing.”—Sarah Peck“It really is the outcomes that people want. That's the way it is with all transformations. Inputs don't matter—only outcomes.”—Joe Pine
Eliminating Friction
When outsourcing is freeing vs. when it simply adds more friction to your life.How to tell the difference between good friction and bad friction (hint: it’s not the same for everyone).Why it makes perfect sense to outsource critical functions that are not core to your business—think taxes, legal, payroll.The surprising benefits from documenting what you do and how you do it.The human side of heavy outsourcing—and how to decide if it’s for you. Quotables“I don't really care about search. I care about word of mouth. So if people aren't searching for my name, I'm doing something wrong.”—JS“After that first week (without my VA) I literally wanted to gouge my eyes out.”—RM“When it's literally done, it's different than knowing it's going to get done.”—JS“I'd like to not do it (the outsourced task), but I love the feeling that it's done and I don't have to worry anymore.”—RM“It would be silly to do your own books or legal…things that are just not core to your business.”—JS“I want to outsource the things that bring me comfort or bring me to a different level.”—RM“I can't stress enough how important it is to have the steps of any of your processes written down.”—JS“Having that checklist means not having to dedicate a space of your brain to anything routine.”—RM LINKSRochelle | Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter
Eliminating Friction
When outsourcing is freeing vs. when it simply adds more friction to your life.How to tell the difference between good friction and bad friction (hint: it’s not the same for everyone).Why it makes perfect sense to outsource critical functions that are not core to your business—think taxes, legal, payroll.The surprising benefits from documenting what you do and how you do it.The human side of heavy outsourcing—and how to decide if it’s for you. Quotables“I don't really care about search. I care about word of mouth. So if people aren't searching for my name, I'm doing something wrong.”—JS“After that first week (without my VA) I literally wanted to gouge my eyes out.”—RM“When it's literally done, it's different than knowing it's going to get done.”—JS“I'd like to not do it (the outsourced task), but I love the feeling that it's done and I don't have to worry anymore.”—RM“It would be silly to do your own books or legal…things that are just not core to your business.”—JS“I want to outsource the things that bring me comfort or bring me to a different level.”—RM“I can't stress enough how important it is to have the steps of any of your processes written down.”—JS“Having that checklist means not having to dedicate a space of your brain to anything routine.”—RM
Setting Your Own Agenda
The questions to ask yourself if you want to start or stop providing a particular service to a particular client.Breaking up with your client: when to do it, how to do it and what to watch out for.Why you always want to build a time constraint when transitioning clients—and how to think about the transition process.When retainer scope creep is your fault—think guilt around doing less for a bigger retainer—and what to do about it.Why the consultant’s job is to hold the vision for the project (and who is always THE client).Quotables“Here's the thing, it's your business. If you want to stop doing tactical work, you do more strategic work.”—JS“Breakups don't have to be ugly, but the other thing is that sometimes what we think might lead to a breakup doesn't at all.”—RM“Once you start doing that (extra pair of hands work), then it's a slippery slope. All of a sudden it's like the architect is cleaning the bathrooms.”—JS“The client asks because they don't think about our business model. They assume if they ask us for something that doesn't make sense, we'll say no .”—RM“The perfect time to say no…is the first time, like when the first ask happens or when you first think you're going to do it of your own volition. The second best time to do it is right now.”—JS“It's really important to be clear about your timeline so that your clients understand that there's a limited timeframe and if they don't move, they're not going to get support.”—RM“But if you have one foot out the door, it totally changes the framing (of your message). And then they're like, wait, maybe there's something we can work out.”—JS“Holding the vision for the project, that's our job. And if I want to get dramatic, I would say it's a sacred obligation.”—RM
Setting Your Own Agenda
The questions to ask yourself if you want to start or stop providing a particular service to a particular client.Breaking up with your client: when to do it, how to do it and what to watch out for.Why you always want to build a time constraint when transitioning clients—and how to think about the transition process.When retainer scope creep is your fault—think guilt around doing less for a bigger retainer—and what to do about it.Why the consultant’s job is to hold the vision for the project (and who is always THE client).Quotables“Here's the thing, it's your business. If you want to stop doing tactical work, you do more strategic work.”—JS“Breakups don't have to be ugly, but the other thing is that sometimes what we think might lead to a breakup doesn't at all.”—RM“Once you start doing that (extra pair of hands work), then it's a slippery slope. All of a sudden it's like the architect is cleaning the bathrooms.”—JS“The client asks because they don't think about our business model. They assume if they ask us for something that doesn't make sense, we'll say no .”—RM“The perfect time to say no…is the first time, like when the first ask happens or when you first think you're going to do it of your own volition. The second best time to do it is right now.”—JS“It's really important to be clear about your timeline so that your clients understand that there's a limited timeframe and if they don't move, they're not going to get support.”—RM“But if you have one foot out the door, it totally changes the framing (of your message). And then they're like, wait, maybe there's something we can work out.”—JS“Holding the vision for the project, that's our job. And if I want to get dramatic, I would say it's a sacred obligation.”—RM LINKSRochelle | Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter
Are You Feeling Lucky?
How to move beyond magical thinking and get very specific about your dream clients and buyers.Why crystal clear positioning makes everything—including attracting your ideal clients—flow more easily.Improving your odds of successful matchmaking—allowing influential others to hook you up with “your people”. The relationship between taking calculated risks and achieving oversized outcomes (think drumming with the Foo Fighters).Matching your dream up to your business and revenue model—and why that’s so critical.Quotables“If you could just wave a magic wand and be working with your top 20 dream clients, what names would be on that list?”—JS“In most situations, success is hard work plus opportunity or as someone famously said, ‘The harder I work, the luckier I get.’”—RM“You can increase your luck surface area, meaning you can do things, you can do the work, put in the effort to make it much more likely that you're going to attract the right kind of opportunities.”—JS“We want to be a thoughtful matchmaker—it’s what we hope to receive from the people matchmaking us.”—RM“Books will have this tendency to give you a defacto positioning.”—JS“When we first start businesses, we're not always that clear about where we’re going—it’s like binoculars that you keep focusing.”—RM “There's this outbound thing where you can take control of fate and say, okay, that's my dream. Tesla marketing. That's all I care about. And you put all of your resources into that for a period of time.”—JS“We want to see you succeed when you are the underdog…I want to see you strap on the cape and fly off into the air.”—RM
Are You Feeling Lucky?
How to move beyond magical thinking and get very specific about your dream clients and buyers.Why crystal clear positioning makes everything—including attracting your ideal clients—flow more easily.Improving your odds of successful matchmaking—allowing influential others to hook you up with “your people”. The relationship between taking calculated risks and achieving oversized outcomes (think drumming with the Foo Fighters).Matching your dream up to your business and revenue model—and why that’s so critical.Quotables“If you could just wave a magic wand and be working with your top 20 dream clients, what names would be on that list?”—JS“In most situations, success is hard work plus opportunity or as someone famously said, ‘The harder I work, the luckier I get.’”—RM“You can increase your luck surface area, meaning you can do things, you can do the work, put in the effort to make it much more likely that you're going to attract the right kind of opportunities.”—JS“We want to be a thoughtful matchmaker—it’s what we hope to receive from the people matchmaking us.”—RM“Books will have this tendency to give you a defacto positioning.”—JS“When we first start businesses, we're not always that clear about where we’re going—it’s like binoculars that you keep focusing.”—RM “There's this outbound thing where you can take control of fate and say, okay, that's my dream. Tesla marketing. That's all I care about. And you put all of your resources into that for a period of time.”—JS“We want to see you succeed when you are the underdog…I want to see you strap on the cape and fly off into the air.”—RM LINKSRochelle | Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter
Making Your Email Newsletters Relatable with John Dick
How the newsletter started and why it was a well-kept secret for years.Tying the newsletter to the core business without making it salesy or deadly dull—and positioning it differently than anyone else in the space.How he sets the flow of the newsletter—and his fear that eventually he’ll run out of stories (sound familiar?).His #1 rule before releasing any “What We’re Seeing” emails.Why typical business assumptions about corporate titans are wrong—and how to engage them.Quotables“I wanted it to be the kind of thing they would want to read while drinking their coffee in the morning or laying next to their spouse in bed, on their phone. That's the vibe I was going for.”—JD“I was quite apprehensive initially about even doing something weekly. Cause I was like I once you're on the ride, it’s hard to get off.”—JD“It's gotten harder because I've used up most of my good stories by now, like funny stories I have from my dad or my college or whatever and like all my best material, I worry sometimes that I've used it up.”—JD“An insight is significantly more valuable the more relatable you can make it.”—JD“When you can make the insight…it doesn't just allow us to connect with that person as a reader, but it allows them to actually use that insight to drive a decision that they have to make.”—JD“I do think there are the people who read that and they see I'm not exactly sure what this company does, but I want to do business with people like this.”—JD“My Saturday email gets to be a little bit of a sacred place where that (sales) stuff doesn't happen.”—JD“I can tell you without ever naming any names, the most senior people and powerful people on that list are the ones who are most likely to answer those frivolous poll questions at the end of the newsletter.”—JDLinksCivic Science Twitter LINKSRochelle | Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter
Making Your Email Newsletters Relatable with John Dick
How the newsletter started and why it was a well-kept secret for years.Tying the newsletter to the core business without making it salesy or deadly dull—and positioning it differently than anyone else in the space.How he sets the flow of the newsletter—and his fear that eventually he’ll run out of stories (sound familiar?).His #1 rule before releasing any “What We’re Seeing” emails.Why typical business assumptions about corporate titans are wrong—and how to engage them.Quotables“I wanted it to be the kind of thing they would want to read while drinking their coffee in the morning or laying next to their spouse in bed, on their phone. That's the vibe I was going for.”—JD“I was quite apprehensive initially about even doing something weekly. Cause I was like I once you're on the ride, it’s hard to get off.”—JD“It's gotten harder because I've used up most of my good stories by now, like funny stories I have from my dad or my college or whatever and like all my best material, I worry sometimes that I've used it up.”—JD“An insight is significantly more valuable the more relatable you can make it.”—JD“When you can make the insight…it doesn't just allow us to connect with that person as a reader, but it allows them to actually use that insight to drive a decision that they have to make.”—JD“I do think there are the people who read that and they see I'm not exactly sure what this company does, but I want to do business with people like this.”—JD“My Saturday email gets to be a little bit of a sacred place where that (sales) stuff doesn't happen.”—JD“I can tell you without ever naming any names, the most senior people and powerful people on that list are the ones who are most likely to answer those frivolous poll questions at the end of the newsletter.”—JDLinksCivic Science Twitter
Zero To One
What it takes to put your first product out for the world to see (even if you’re not painting zombies on skateboards).The fears you may experience the first time you go public and how to push through them.Why publishing your price(s) attracts the right buyers and repels the bad-fits.Worried about leaving money on the table by quoting a flat price? How to think about that whole transaction differently.Why your prices for products and productized services are all experimental and deserve to change regularly.Quotables“I was aware of a sales guy who would routinely send out proposals with an extra zero. And if the client gasps, he's ‘oh, it's a typo. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. It's $60,000, not $600,000.’”—JS“The buyer's time is valuable too. Who's going to want to sit through three conversations with three unknowns to figure out what they're going to do?”—RM“Just put a price on your website and you'll automatically attract the right kind of people for you. It would save everyone time. You wouldn't have to negotiate.”—JS“That first time that you actually put a price on your website…all sorts of things come up in your head, including imposter syndrome.”—RM“There's this fear of leaving money on the table, but guess what? If somebody jumps at it, then you just raise the price for the next person.”—JS“If you don't ever try raising your prices, you won't know the upper limits of what you can charge.”—RM“That indifference to whether or not the client buys—generally that comes from being in demand.”—JS“There's just something about putting a price on your website—you’re making a statement, oh, this is not a cheap WordPress guy I can hire for a thousand dollars…That’s level setting.”—RMLinksCarl Richards on Ditching HourlyAsk us a question
Zero To One
What it takes to put your first product out for the world to see (even if you’re not painting zombies on skateboards).The fears you may experience the first time you go public and how to push through them.Why publishing your price(s) attracts the right buyers and repels the bad-fits.Worried about leaving money on the table by quoting a flat price? How to think about that whole transaction differently.Why your prices for products and productized services are all experimental and deserve to change regularly.Quotables“I was aware of a sales guy who would routinely send out proposals with an extra zero. And if the client gasps, he's ‘oh, it's a typo. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. It's $60,000, not $600,000.’”—JS“The buyer's time is valuable too. Who's going to want to sit through three conversations with three unknowns to figure out what they're going to do?”—RM“Just put a price on your website and you'll automatically attract the right kind of people for you. It would save everyone time. You wouldn't have to negotiate.”—JS“That first time that you actually put a price on your website…all sorts of things come up in your head, including imposter syndrome.”—RM“There's this fear of leaving money on the table, but guess what? If somebody jumps at it, then you just raise the price for the next person.”—JS“If you don't ever try raising your prices, you won't know the upper limits of what you can charge.”—RM“That indifference to whether or not the client buys—generally that comes from being in demand.”—JS“There's just something about putting a price on your website—you’re making a statement, oh, this is not a cheap WordPress guy I can hire for a thousand dollars…That’s level setting.”—RMLinksCarl Richards on Ditching HourlyAsk us a question LINKSRochelle | Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter
Monetizing Your Positioning
How most freelancers and independent consultants monetize their expertise in their first year or two—and the signs when your revenue model might need an overhaul.The link between your positioning and monetizing your business—and why you want to be open to new ways of packaging your expertise.A “typical” consulting/speaking/book revenue model and how it can become a trap (and some ideas to avoid it altogether or get out while you can).What to do when your revenue model isn’t working.Quotables“It's very common for people to just go out on their own and do their job, but for clients instead of a boss, and the obvious business model is to just rent your hands out by the hour. And that's fine. That'll get you going.”—JS“And then at some point (after you’ve positioned yourself) you come smack dab up to your business and revenue model and you say, oh, these don't fit anymore.”—RM“The competition is increasing and you start to realize that you need to, you might not call it positioning, but you start to realize that you need to appear different in a meaningful way.”—JS“The real money is coming from the other two revenue streams (consulting and speaking), so he is on what I would call a gilded hamster wheel.”—RM“The typical business model for a consultant is write books, speak at conferences and make your money on consulting…He couldn't sell that business—he is the business.”—JS“This idea that you're stuck with this business and revenue model that you created for something you no longer do is insanity.”—RM“I love posting prices on your website because it puts you into a slot in the prospect's mind. So when new clients come along, they already have the expectation, at least in a ballpark way, of what it would mean to work together.”—JS“Of course, there are things you're going to do for free. But when you're working in your genius zone, delivering to your ideal audience, most of those should be paid.”—RMLINKSInequity aversion LINKSRochelle | Email List | LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramJonathan | Daily List | Website | Ditcherville | LinkedIn | Twitter